Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

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SteveO
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Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby SteveO » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:21 am

In 2011 we finally got our own class allowing us to race separately from the Seniors, and now we have our own forum! :D
The Masters class has seen great growth in the 2 years we've been running, many times we've had the largest grid of all the Rotax classes.
At the last race of the season, we had 16 drivers competing and the lap time separation was only 1 second between the fastest & slowest drivers. That is incredible, and shows how competitive our class has become.

I will be acting as the Rotax Masters Class rep for the 2013 season, and want to welcome anyone considering racing in the Masters class next year. I'd like to grab a beer and meet with the Masters drivers after the next club meeting on Jan 7, 2013 to talk about the class and see if there are any ideas you might have to help our class grow and ways to improve it.

See you on the track,
SteveO
Stephen Orton
Rotax Masters Class Rep
http://www.TeamDHRT.com

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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby CKRCAdmin » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:29 pm

Steve,

Here's something to think about and maybe toss around for discussion:

Traditionally, "masters" classes have been about the age of the competitor and less about the weight (although it makes sense that masters classes weigh a little heavier as nature tends to make us heavier as we age). I was very excited to hear we were going to have a masters class because I was interested in racing people closer to my age (a little more experienced perhaps and less aggressive than the young bucks).

I was quite disappointed to find that our "Masters" class is really "Rotax Heavy". Personally, there is no way I can practically make weight for this class. Due to that, I've gone to 4-stroke and will likely sell my Rotax. I'm pretty sure that most people racing masters are there because of weight and not age.

So, while its probably just an exercise in taxonomy, I'd like to suggest the we take a look at the weight for this class and consider lowering it. OR, as I expect will be the more likely avenue, to consider just calling it "Rotax Heavy" and leave the door open for a future classification that it truly a masters class based on age and less on weight.

Tis should really be the case for all classes (with the numbers to support proper grids, of course) to have Jr, Sr, Sr Heavy and Masters grids.
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Posts made by me are my opinion and do not necessarily reflect those of the CKRC unless specifically stated.

vphenning
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby vphenning » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:32 am

I'm sorry Mark but I have to disagree with you .
With respect to the weight of the class it isn't the same as the RMC rules which dictate the age as 32 and a weight of 381 . The club being 395 with a person between the age of 15 and 32 has to be 195lbs plus . I'm not sure if we have any in that age group . The difference of 14 pounds seems to be a nice way of making the playing field more even . I imagine there are still more than a couple of guys that come in above 395 without any lead .
The times as Steve has mentioned are pretty much spot on . Other than the G2 team , yah that's right I've named you guys , there is a second and 2km/hr difference in a 15 kart field .
As for you being a fly weight , add lead , the guys in this group would be more than happy to help pick up the kart . It would be no different than the 3 people that lift Andrew's kart in Rotax .
In the end , call it Masters , call it Heavy it looks like a formula that works .

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John Kwong
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby John Kwong » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:26 am

It is hard to argue with success and I can see this class growing even more in 2013.
The club being 395 with a person between the age of 15 and 32 has to be 195lbs plus . I'm not sure if we have any in that age group.
Looking at the championship roster of 21 entries, I believe Nathan Rogers is the only one.

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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby CKRCAdmin » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:52 pm

I have 35 lbs of lead on already, adding another 30 lbs is neither safe nor practical.

The class is clearly popular so it's probably best to call it heavy and leave it alone; ill give up on it, sell my stuff and be content in 4-stroke. I think we should just call a spade a spade. If you look at 4-stroke, we have a heavy class (and not a 'masters' class) and it would be good to keep naming styles consistent throughout the classes.

We've been doing this a while but for people new to our sport, all the classes, ages, motors, etc are all rather confusing. If we're to prosper as a club, we need to be mindful of how the public perceive what we do and the simpler and clearer it is, the better.
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Dan Lazar
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby Dan Lazar » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:22 am

DML
Last edited by Dan Lazar on Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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SteveO
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby SteveO » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:34 pm

Some really good thoughts and conversation.

When I think of the Masters grid, I'd have to estimate that probably half do not have to add any weight. Some like Tom M. need something like 60 pounds of weight, and I can tell you, I hate lifting his kart as much as the next guy. However, if either of us were racing with the Rotax Seniors, we'd be in the right weight category, but they'd be wiping the floor with us.

I personally like the designation 'Masters' as the mindset of the drivers is somewhat different than the Seniors. Believe me, I certainly would not want to change the name to Rotax Mature, but I there is some truth in that.

The tough part is that most of the Senior drivers have been racing karts since they were young. For the driver that has never raced karts, stepping into that class will overwhelm them, and very likely discourage them from racing long term. The Masters class however is the perfect place for those that want the speed of a Rotax, but also want someone to race with. I don't beleive the weight difference necessarily makes up for the speed difference between the two classes. I've spoken to a couple of relatively new Senior drivers, and their pace is on par with the Masters, but their age & weight restrict them from our class.

If I'm an older adult, I want to be mixing it up with those roughly my own age. And if we want to continue to grow the class, we need have a place for those drivers, as I see this as a class that will see continued growth.
If it was purely wieght based, I could be racing with a 15 year old, and our physical & mental outlook and capabilities are not at all on the same level. The Masters class has numerous drivers in their 50's & 60's and I think the name is appropriate for our existing group of drivers.

The tough question is how do we handle someone in Mark's situation, who would like to race with the Masters, but because he's kept in far better shape than most of us, has problems meeting weight. There is no easy answer, unless our Rotax class grows tremendously where we could have a Rotax Seniors Light & Heavy and a Rotax Masters Light & Heavy. But until we get to that point, I like the separation based on age, more so than weight.

And Dan, the Masters class lets the old guys, not necessarily the heavy guys, get close to the front! ;)
Stephen Orton
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby CKRCAdmin » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:40 pm

All good points. Don't worry about me, I'm just 1 guy and the class is doing well (and growing) so I wouldn't want to mess with a good thing.

It is frustrating for me though, I will admit. There are advantages to being a scrawny little puke but this isn't one of them !

What we really need is to make a Jr3 category and start seniors at 25 -that'd solve it :mrgreen:
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phil
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby phil » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:58 pm

The only question I have on the weight is, when & why did we steer away from the RMC rules on this, which is 381lbs, & I believe has been for a long time? I was one who weighed in heavy ( at least until I found I had Celiac's), & would have a hard time getting down to 381, but also wouldn't care if the weight got lowered. I think the class will continue to thrive regardless of which weight gets put in the sup regs, primarily because of the energy & enthusiasm shown by those in the group. I know I will be back with my old kart, & my rapidly aging body for at least part of 2013.

Phil

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John Kwong
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Re: Welcome to the Rotax Masters Forum

Postby John Kwong » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:32 pm

FYI

In the UK they run a class called Rotax 177 which refers to 177 kg (390.218 lbs). Florida Winter Tour and Gatorz Challenge of the Americas runs Masters at 405 lbs. 381 lbs is just too light to be attractive to the most competitors.

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