2017 Shifter class

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Nathan B
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Nathan B »

Nice research Joey!

I think you are right, switching up the weights will not bring the guy in 15th to the front of the pack.

Having said that, maybe we just table this discussion for a while, and come spring 2017 we nominate the best looking shifter driver ( Me or Brian) and we go do a test session with our new KZ's and see what kind of lap time difference we can get by strapping on 10lbs of lead!

Then we take the worst looking shifter driver ( Evan White or Joey G) and see what kind of lap time difference removing 10lbs makes on a Moto!

Once we have the data we can weigh in at a club meeting and see what the consensus is.

Jaro51
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Jaro51 »

Good discussion and some interesting points brought up! I think there are 2 separate issues being addressed, one is to even the field for the half a dozen real fast drivers that have a shot at a podium or win and the second issue is continuing to grow the class.

Issue #1 - level the field for the fast guys. Fiddling with a few pounds of weight is probably only going to re-sort the order of that group of fast guys, it won't have any bearing on us slow drivers. As a spectator and fan of exciting racing, I'd love to see that group of fast guys battling it out as a pack so if there's a chance to level things up for them, might be worth looking into but I hate the thought of seeing top tier drivers and equipment saddled with gobs of lead to slow them down to the lowest common denominator. Let that group of guys figure it out.

Issue #2 - Grow the Class. What I think would really help the class continue to grow is to help us slow guys get faster and not make the fast guys go slower. It's intimidating as a slow rookie to come out and race, especially when there's a chance that you'll get lapped by the fast guys. I don't want my lack of speed interfering with race/championship results and I bet lots of rookies/non racers feel the same.

What about having some of the fast shifter drivers volunteer to do some shifter instruction/training days? Would be a great experience for the new/slower drivers to get some proper coaching & instruction and I'm sure would increase their confidence and get their driving style and lap times to a point that they aren't a hazard if they are getting lapped. That would have been a huge incentive for me to race more/sooner last season. And it'll help build some trust and hopefully build a community in the shifter class. Nigel was kind enough to help me out a bunch last fall and my driving improved a ton because of it, thanks Nigel!

Lol, I hope this doesn't sound like I want us to all sit in a group hug and chant 3 ohms before we start racing! I doubt I'll ever battle for a podium and I'm OK with that. As long as I'm pushing to my limits and have a few other racers to battle with, I'm guaranteed to come off the track with a smile.

JW

JakeThompson
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by JakeThompson »

My biggest takeaway from this thread was Joey fat shaming me by assuming I'm at 420.

On a more serious note, all I will add is that we don't want to over science this. Old vs new KZ works in theory but there a many different levels of both old and new depending on how much money you want to spend.

Mark
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Mark »

Nathan B wrote:Mark,

I think the opposite has happened at our club. The class has grown because it was wide open, this has allowed everyone to run whatever they had kicking around, or to build whatever version of a shifter they want to drive. These gentlemans guidelines have been key, and continuing to promote the class as a fun class and not a hyper competitive one focused on results has led to its growth.
Agreed but that's only good for the short term. At a certain point, people (I'm lookin' at you, Nathan !) get a whiff and BAM...money is spent, perfprmance is increased and the bar is raised.

Nathan B wrote:Don't kid yourself. If the class was spec'd as stock moto, there would be guys who have the money to blueprint motors ect... and you would still see the same guys running at the front, with Evan white 2 laps ahead of them!
Also agreed. Not much can be done about this in an un-sealed class.
Mark Hillier #44 VLR Senior, Shifter

Team 75
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City/Town: Edmonton

Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Team 75 »

Shifter has become all about the money. Too bad

Nathan B
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Nathan B »

CKRCAdmin wrote:
Nathan B wrote:Mark,


Agreed but that's only good for the short term. At a certain point, people (I'm lookin' at you, Nathan !) get a whiff and BAM...money is spent, perfprmance is increased and the bar is raised.


Mark, not sure if you recall the last year of Varsity when we all agreed to go stock moto, and I purchased one along with a bunch of other guys. Fast forward two years and the first season at at the new track, I was left holding my bag as no other stock moto guys raced and I was the only one on the grid against a bunch of TM's! Now that I have driven a TM, I will never go back, I love it!

Shifter has been great the last couple years, the club champion this year is running one of the most budget friendly karts on the grid! Evan White was ripping a Moto to Podiums, and John kwong got a KZ9 with a couple parts to be pretty competitive with the new 10s. Shifter hasn't become all about money, the guidelines we put in place have been working great, the racing has been fun, you guys need to just get out on the grid and see how it stacks up!!

Mark
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Mark »

Nathan,

I concede that I do not. It's only the last couple of years that I have paid much attention to the goings-on in the class.

Your point is well taken. If I were, for example, go to Joey and buy a brand new shifter chassis with the latest and greatest TM motor, it is unlikely that I would be challenging any of the front runners. Skill trumps equipment !

I suppose I just think that I know how this is all going to shake out and I don't want it to go that way. Of course, I could well be completely wrong -wouldn't be the first time; certainly won't be the last !

The class is healthy and growing and as long as each participant is getting what they want from it, that should continue.
Mark Hillier #44 VLR Senior, Shifter

Joey Guyon
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Joey Guyon »

Can I propose a few alterations to the weights to get the year going?

KZ 2010 and newer 410
ICC/FC 2009 and prior 400
Moto engines 375

We can start there and fine tune as needed. With all of the good discussion that has gone on, we can make tweaks if we think this is too aggressive/or not enough.

All in?
Last edited by Joey Guyon on Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Evan White
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Evan White »

sure joey!

Nathan B
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Re: 2017 Shifter class

Post by Nathan B »

Joey Guyon wrote:Can I propose a few alterations to the weights to get the year going?

KZ 2010 and newer 410
ICC/FC 2009 and prior 400
Moto engines 375

We can start there and fine tune as needed. With all of the good discussion that has gone on, we can make tweaks if we think this is too aggressive/or not enough.

All in?

Looks good Joey

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