Warm up and Quali

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BANZracing
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Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Mon May 30, 2016 8:58 am

Hi J1 team!

I wanted to start a thread this week to get some consensus around how we want to run the start of qualifying this year. I'm not sure if anyone else was confused, but Nick and I were definitely caught off-guard with the formality of things when we arrived at pre-grid on Sunday for quali. We were told that the boys needed to grid up based on their times from warm-up. In essence, warm up is no longer warm-up, but a pre-qualifying event. I'm not sure this is helpful or meaningful to any of us to have warm up potentially dictating the rest of the day. Personally, we like to use warm up to shake down the kart, try different setup (based on conditions, etc.), get Nick and Zack warmed up, motors warmed up, etc. We pay no attention to track position during warm up, and we've never felt compelled to go out for the first run of the day and try to out run the rest of the grid. In fact, we didn't even run a transponder on Nick's kart on Saturday during warm up, and there were no issues getting Nick gridded where he wanted to be for quali later that same morning. I'm not sure why Sunday was so contentious with some of the parents around qualifying, but certainly feel we need to resolve this quickly.

Comments welcome!
Brian
(Nick#97, Zack#7)

JChan
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by JChan » Mon May 30, 2016 9:44 am

I was shocked as well as I thought there was no order to grid up for practice or qualify. Matthew was moved for the same reason as Nick and Zack and I personally prefer them to not to grip up base on warm-up time.

Joe

samk
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by samk » Mon May 30, 2016 10:16 am

I thought I would chime in on this to provide a little bit of history on the subject (as a former Jr. 1 parent).

In the past, all of the kids want to be first in line to go out to qualify. What ended up happening is that some of the faster drivers (that ended up in the back of the line) know that they need to lay down a fast lap in a relatively short qualifying session and feel pressured to get by the slower traffic. This has led to some questionable passes and some crashes in qualifying. By sending them out by practice times, this allows everyone to get at least one lap in without having to deal with passing or being passed. We used to space the drivers by 2-3 seconds for qualifying as well and not send them all at once. At the Jr. 1 meeting (after the drivers meeting), we used to tech the drivers on flags. If they did not immediately know the answer, they had to go back to their pit, study and come back before being able to race.

The problem is not the slow or fast drivers, it is young racers eager to get out front and race for the win. It is human nature for kids at the Jr. 1 age level. The drivers' decision making skills have not matured to the level of an adult (they are still 8-11 years old) and the rules were put in place to help them through these decisions. Rules like the minimum laps, maximum lap time, etc. are all put in place to help keep this class as safe as possible. While karting is quite safe, we do want to avoid crashes as much as possible. I have seen a few good drivers have wrecks and never return, which is not good for our sport.

With that being said, I know there are some smart people out there with great ideas and if the existing rules/procedures can be improved upon, go for it, but please remember the underlying reasons for the rules. There are a lot of people still around from the Jr. 1 days (Phil, Blake, Dan, Gil, Hardy - just to name a few) and we all would be more than happy to help out where we are able.

Hope this helps.

BANZracing
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Mon May 30, 2016 1:32 pm

Thanks Sam! The history you've shared is helpful in understanding the thinking in this regard.

Although I don't have any strong disagreements with Sam's points in his post, I am confused as to why this "rule" appeared all of a sudden on Sunday morning, after a year and a half of running in J1. I'd like to understand from the other parents what direction we should be taking so that we are all on the same page. Depending on which way we go as a group here, will dictate greatly our personal strategy at future races.

Mark
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Mark » Mon May 30, 2016 4:10 pm

Generally, for qualifying, I place Alex on the grid roughly where I think he is in terms of lap time, effectively mimicing the rule. My hope is this is his best chance and clean, clear laps. In my experience, most parents seem to do this as well, under normal circumstances.

Do we need a "rule" stipulating this ? Not in my opinion as is seems to work pretty well right now.

Regardless, I agree that anything new like this should be announced prior to the event in which it is implemented, ideally at the drivers meeting but also posted to the website for the benefit of those absent at the event.
Mark Hillier #44

pauldeadman
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by pauldeadman » Mon May 30, 2016 4:16 pm

Sounds like I missed all the fun on Sunday! Sorry we wasn't around.

From my understanding a lack of communication is most of the problem. Why did this happen on Sunday? And who decided it was happening?

We could go on and on, everyone will have an opinion. Lets work together on a way forward and come up with a plan before the next race.

Unfortunately with no J1 rep we've left it to ourselves to self manage. This has worked until Sunday and I'm sure we can make it work for the rest of the season. I have a lot of soccer commitments right now but if we really need a name and someone to lead the J1 group then I'll nominate myself.

Now to the point of setting the grid. I personally don't believe that practice times should have any bearing on the rest of the day. Practice is called that for a reason.

I have two lines of thought for setting the grid:

1. keeping it random by pulling a grid position from a hat at the drivers meeting in the morning. That position is yours for practice and qualifying.
2. The grid forms for qualifying based on the previous race result. If you didn't race then you start at the back. Practice stays as random because its just practice.

Please feel free to join in this discussion, it will not be resolved with silence and its for the kids not us!

thanks
Paul

Murr15
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Murr15 » Mon May 30, 2016 5:05 pm

I think that as parents we should be able to manage this we know about where our kids run, for me it's a pure safety issue the fast guys shouldn't grid in the back and slow guys shouldn't grid in the front. I personally don't really want a rule practice is practice. I wouldn't want Matt at the front right now as he would just get in the way and maybe get run over, when he gets faster I'll move him up. We are talking about seconds here not half seconds and under

My humble opinion

Murray

samk
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by samk » Mon May 30, 2016 5:58 pm

It is actually a rule in the CKRC supplementals. Top of Page 15 if I am not mistaken. minimum speed and lap times are on the bottom of the previous page.

BANZracing
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Mon May 30, 2016 8:12 pm

Thanks Sam. I saw the rule in the supplemental guide.

"CKRC SUPPLEMENTAL REGUALTIONS : Ver 8.00 Sanctioned by ASN Canada FIA 15 Junior 1 individual qualifying order will be determined by practice times starting with the fastest practice time. Rookies will go out in the order of their practice time for qualifying (not starting at the back for qualifying)"

What we need to do is get consensus from the parent group that we will indeed follow this rule consistently moving forward. If not, we need to discuss a plan that works for our current group of boys.

I'd also suggest that if we do follow the rule as stated, that we implement a 2-4s gap between each kart as they leave the pre-grid. This would allow a decent buffer for most drivers, if for some reason a fast driver had an issue in warmup that forced them to the middle/back of the grid for qualifying. I personally don't like this rule for a number of reasons, but if it's been adopted by the club, let's make it work for the boys.

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Fred
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Fred » Mon May 30, 2016 8:42 pm

All though this has been a rule for a long time i have not enforced it and let the parents self regulate it because I personally dont agree with it. Saying that i was radioed by pre grid Sunday and told that the Junior 1 parents wanted gridding by practice times (I dont know who it was that said that) but I replied if thats the concensus then we will run to the Sup regs... it wasnt done last year and up until Sunday it hasnt been done this year .... someone asked for it to be enacted ??

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