Warm up and Quali

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BANZracing
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Mon May 30, 2016 8:52 pm

Thanks Fred. There inlies the problem on Sunday. Not all parents were consulted and the situation appeared to be a spur of the moment decision. If you (Fred) were told that it was the consensus of the parents, then that would have been a very big stretch by whomever let the pre-grid official(s) know. Many of us were not consulted and simply told of the rule change/enforcement.

Do we want to run with this rule in effect for the rest of the year? Is the majority in favor of it?

I would vote against it and go back to how we've run, without major issue, for the last season and a quarter.

Murr15
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Murr15 » Mon May 30, 2016 9:30 pm

Well well well so it is rule! obviously some people know them better than others I think it's on pg 18 though (jk). It could be troubles or a different setup that dosent work or whatever that could drive one of the faster boys to the back, again it's safety that is paramount, if one of the faster boys has troubles and ends up behind Matt I will likely give them our spot or if some slower boys get in front, I will get Matt to gap them one way or another so he can have a clean run. I do think it is important that they are segregated by speed somehow I just don't want practice to be qualifying for qualifying position and we are counting 10ths if it is then let's just qualify and run 3 races. Ok maybe that's extreme.... I think the time to be eligible to race is around a 1:12 we have kids running 1:04s 1:03s and everything in between, it's been managed pretty well with out issue. Brian has 2 boys in here at each end of the field I would not expect Niick and Zac to line up together......and they don't. Practice is practice qualifying is qualifying.

BANZracing
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Mon May 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Cold kart, cold track, cold bodies; and the expectation with this rule is now go as fast as you can in warmup to ensure the safest possible quali position?! This is a recipe for error/crashes, especially at this age level. Two qualifying heats is plain silly IMO at a club level. As a racer, I wouldn't ever want (or feel comfortable with) the first run of my day dictating the placement of my kart for the rest of the heats that count. Safety is paramount. Murray makes great points above to that effect.

phil
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by phil » Tue May 31, 2016 7:25 am

I think when the rule was put in place it was done more as a "strong suggestion" than a hard and fast rule. It does help the qualifying run smoother, and avoids the race to pre-grid to get the best spot. With the huge difference in lap time from the front to the back in J1, gridding them by progression allows the slower ones to be behind someone who is marginally quicker, which can be a great learning opportunity. It also avoids the faster ones starting at the back, and then being upset because one of the slower ones they caught up to ruined their best lap. I would try to leave some space between them, but also be aware that too much space causes the same problem,as the fast ones catch the back of the grid quickly. This shouldn't be as big of an issue at this track, as the track is longer, and the qualifying sessions are shorter. Common sense goes a long way, as does respect, in doing the same basic thing without a rule. We are also switching directions for the next race, and some will get more practice than others, and the "normal" order might not be the same anymore. Transponders are supposed to be fitted for practice also, so timing can verify that they are working properly before qualifying. If a kart doesn't have one on I think most are running a mychron, so getting a time shouldn't be that difficult.

franksartor
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by franksartor » Tue May 31, 2016 9:26 am

Hi All,

I will volunteer for the Jr 1 rep position, unless anyone else would like to step up.

First of all I am very impressed with the field of drivers this year. All the Jr 1 drivers are getting better. I have been in this sport for a long time but I am still learning every time out. My view is that our Jr1 class is a class that many "family teams" are learning how to race. My objective will be to get these new race teams up to speed as safely and quickly as possible. Over the next few weeks/months, I will endeavour to send out as much information that I can and I will keep it condensed. I will be working on the following topics: Basic Jr1 kart set up, Briggs engine tuning & Maintenance, Safe competitive driving and passing. I welcome input from all the Jr1 drivers and parents. I know that we are all very competitive and want to win - but lets have fun racing.

RULES & REGULATIONS

Simply put we follow ASN Canada regulations coupled with our own CKRC supplementary rules. All of these rules and regulations are posted on our web site. We as parents of Jr1 drivers should become familiar with these rules. We all compete in a very regulated and competitive sport with may rules and regulations. It is up to the parents to know the rules. Like many of you, I also need to get up to speed on many of the rules as well.

RACE DAY QUALIFICATION

On the Warm up and qualification discussion, the way we grid up now for qualification (fastest drivers out first if for some reason your time was not posted we will use your Micron time) is how the club rules have been set up. We came to this decision last year as it is the best scenario for all the drivers, the slower drivers learn from the faster drivers by following, and the faster drivers don't end up tangled with the slower drivers. I still believe this to be the best scenario as it is a win-win for everybody.

RACE DAY WARMUP SESSION

We currently have an informal consensus that for the warm up session that the faster drivers get out on track first. We have this informal rule for the same reasons listed above as it is a win-win for all the drivers.

I will get consensus at the next race event from all the Jr1 parents.

Cheers

Frank Sartor
Frank Sartor
President CKRC

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Fred
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Fred » Tue May 31, 2016 11:45 am

Page 15 now !
If this is the way forward again a transponder would be mandatory in practice and the class / timing would need to supply a practice time sheet to the pre grid.

I personally still dont see the need for this as most parents know where their drivers ability lies and places the accordingly on the grid... Practice (Morning warm up)as I state at Rookie school should be just that .. a time to make sure everything is working and nothing is going to fall off.... as it stands now its a pre qualifying for qualifying session.
I think a class get together before the next meeting would be good to sort this out.

Christian R
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Christian R » Tue May 31, 2016 11:57 am

I got caught in the middle of the confusion in this on Sunday too and it doesn't matter to me how it works going forward so long as we're all on the same page. I would just prefer to avoid a mad scramble of everyone to get their kids to the front of the grid if the times don't match a theoretical position (i.e. I wouldn't personally rush one of my kids to be in front of the top three just so they can be the first out of the gate during qualifying on the off chance they get held up by a slower Rookie - there are some quick ones - but the odd parent might feel differently as they want their kid(s) to have a "clear" track to optimize their time and then we're increasing the risk of crashing if say the top three get caught at the back of the qualifying grid for whatever reason and have to pass 7+ kids to get to the front).

In a nutshell, my only thought is that if kids aren't spaced out like was suggested earlier, then it's going to lead to frustration on the parts of some parents of faster kids who may have gotten held up in the pits with something and couldn't get their kids staged at the front and thus are forced to deal with "traffic" the entire qualifying session. I think most of us are reasonable and would position our kids where we think they should be but all it takes is one or two that disagree and suddenly we have more chaos. If no one wants to go by the official rule then I think spacing might be a good alternative or it just stays random and we hope everyone plays nice. My $0.02 anyway as I'm not here to ruffle feathers, just out to have fun with everyone else and avoid anyone getting hurt. Having a meeting as Fred suggested to put this whole thing to rest is a good idea.

BANZracing
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by BANZracing » Tue May 31, 2016 12:26 pm

It will be helpful at the meeting we plan to have, to fully understand;

1. Without naming names it would be helpful to understand what was the specific issue/incident that occurred during gridding on Sunday, that made some parent(s) feel compelled to make a call into Fred to enforce the placement rule? If we understand the generalities of the situation, maybe there is a more moderate way we can collectively prevent the same thing from happening again, without the need for all this rigour around warm up. I wasn't on grid until the chaos was well under way.

2. Going forward, what is the decision making & communication criteria for changing the rules of the game, mid-game? Do we trust the rep to make unilateral decision on our collective behalf, or do we get more organized and ensure all voices are heard before changes are implemented? Sunday was very uncool in the way this particular change was handled and communicated to parents IMO.

It would be very helpful to hear from some of the current J1 parents who support running warm up as a pre-qualifying round. A new perspective on this could/should help shape a solid outcome for all of us.

Christian R
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Christian R » Tue May 31, 2016 1:43 pm

Brian, I totally agree with you.

1. I think it was just general confusion as to what the "rules" really are, written or otherwise, and what the fairest way is for everyone to participate. Totally on board with a more moderate way to proceed as it's a distraction that no one needs/wants. There aren't millions of dollars at stake here and we're all there to have fun.

2. If we collectively meet, make a unified decision, then nominate/elect someone like Frank who has volunteered to present on our behalf, then I think the rest of the season will work out just fine without any further confusion...until someone refers to something in writing that conflicts with what was decided lol.

I don't care what the "rule" is going forward either way as long as it works for the majority.

Murr15
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Re: Warm up and Quali

Post by Murr15 » Tue May 31, 2016 4:24 pm

Thanks Frank!

I have said my piece.

Let's have some fun and Race safe!

Murray.

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