Hello all, I am hoping to join up in the senior 4 stroke class this season. I have a few questions regarding clone motors. Is there a size limit on clones? If so what engines are acceptable? Is there a horsepower limit at all? I have tried to load the technical rules page, but my internet is painfully slow, as I am working in Antarctica for another month. I am just wondering if anyone can help me figure out what type of engine I might want to buy. Also does anyone have a ball park price range for the LO206? I thank you all in advance for your time.
David McGrath
4 stroke questions?
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The forums are a place for open discussion of karting topics. Please respect the opinions of others. No name calling, abuse, bashing etc. of any sort will be tolerated and offending posts will be removed and offenders sanctioned at the discretion of the webmaster or the executive. All posted materials, text, etc. become the property of the CKRC and may be displayed or removed at the discretion of the CKRC.
The forums are a place for open discussion of karting topics. Please respect the opinions of others. No name calling, abuse, bashing etc. of any sort will be tolerated and offending posts will be removed and offenders sanctioned at the discretion of the webmaster or the executive. All posted materials, text, etc. become the property of the CKRC and may be displayed or removed at the discretion of the CKRC.
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Fred
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Re: 4 stroke questions?
Wilson ? Joey ? John ?
Can you help out here ?
Can you help out here ?
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wilsondolan
Re: 4 stroke questions?
Hi David,
Glad to hear that there is more interest in growing the grid for 2012!
The clones that have been run in the past in Calgary have been around 200cc's. They are the 6.5hp motors you see at Princess Auto for around 100 bucks.
However, if you are looking to into Sr. 4-Stroke in Calgary I would recommend getting a Briggs & Stratton LO206. Last season we had a large number of racers in Calgary switch to the LO206, and this season it is the only motor that can be run in contention for either the Light or Heavy Sr. 4 Championships. I believe pricing on one of these motors is around $600, and are available locally at Overdrive Motorsports. If you call Joey at Overdrive (403-270-0160) he will be more than happy to provide you will more information on pricing for the LO206, and any other karting needs you may have. The LO206 makes 9.3 hp, which would be more power than a clone would make, unless you start throwing a lot of cash into fancy parts. Even if you did build one of these super clones or "Outlaws" as they are known, you won't get the same reliability as you would with a Briggs.
So it may sound like a big difference in price for the a basic clone it self, but the clone needs to a decent amount of work done to it before it can be strapped on to a chassis, and taken to the track. And by the time all the right parts are fitted to the clone the price is a lot closer to the 206. The 206 comes out of the box needing only to be fitted with a header, muffler, chain guard, and clutch and then its a simple matter of putting oil and gas in it and going to the track.
As for clone rules, the CKRC does not have any spec rules because we have moved to all LO206 for our Sr. 4 stroke classes. That being said should you choose to go with the clone, you could run it in our Open class. The nice thing about the Open class is you bring your own rule book, so you could build your clone to any set of specs you wanted. The bad thing however is there are very few number of competitors in the Open class. If you had a clone you would most likely run on the Sr. 4 Stroke grid, and just be scored in a separately.
Hope all of this helps, and hope to see you on the grid this season!
Regards,
Glad to hear that there is more interest in growing the grid for 2012!
The clones that have been run in the past in Calgary have been around 200cc's. They are the 6.5hp motors you see at Princess Auto for around 100 bucks.
However, if you are looking to into Sr. 4-Stroke in Calgary I would recommend getting a Briggs & Stratton LO206. Last season we had a large number of racers in Calgary switch to the LO206, and this season it is the only motor that can be run in contention for either the Light or Heavy Sr. 4 Championships. I believe pricing on one of these motors is around $600, and are available locally at Overdrive Motorsports. If you call Joey at Overdrive (403-270-0160) he will be more than happy to provide you will more information on pricing for the LO206, and any other karting needs you may have. The LO206 makes 9.3 hp, which would be more power than a clone would make, unless you start throwing a lot of cash into fancy parts. Even if you did build one of these super clones or "Outlaws" as they are known, you won't get the same reliability as you would with a Briggs.
So it may sound like a big difference in price for the a basic clone it self, but the clone needs to a decent amount of work done to it before it can be strapped on to a chassis, and taken to the track. And by the time all the right parts are fitted to the clone the price is a lot closer to the 206. The 206 comes out of the box needing only to be fitted with a header, muffler, chain guard, and clutch and then its a simple matter of putting oil and gas in it and going to the track.
As for clone rules, the CKRC does not have any spec rules because we have moved to all LO206 for our Sr. 4 stroke classes. That being said should you choose to go with the clone, you could run it in our Open class. The nice thing about the Open class is you bring your own rule book, so you could build your clone to any set of specs you wanted. The bad thing however is there are very few number of competitors in the Open class. If you had a clone you would most likely run on the Sr. 4 Stroke grid, and just be scored in a separately.
Hope all of this helps, and hope to see you on the grid this season!
Regards,
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John Kwong
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Re: 4 stroke questions?
Hi David,
+1 to what Wilson wrote.
As a racer who raced with one of the Princess Auto clone motors for one season a couple years ago, the switch to the Briggs LO206 was a nice step up. There is less vibration and more torque. The motor is practically bulletproof. With the sealed crankcase nullifying any tampering and the 6100 rpm rev limiter keeping the motor from imploding, it is a solid motor that has been proven to make for close competitive racing.
John K
+1 to what Wilson wrote.
As a racer who raced with one of the Princess Auto clone motors for one season a couple years ago, the switch to the Briggs LO206 was a nice step up. There is less vibration and more torque. The motor is practically bulletproof. With the sealed crankcase nullifying any tampering and the 6100 rpm rev limiter keeping the motor from imploding, it is a solid motor that has been proven to make for close competitive racing.
John K
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Mark
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Re: 4 stroke questions?
Take it from someone who just built 3 clones - if you haven't bought anything yet, get the LO206.
If you get the base clone motor for $100, you'll end up spending a total of around $400 ( give or take) and spending a good week of evenings modding the motor and putting it all together. An LO206 will cost $600 to $700 but can be ready to go in an evening or so.
Moreover, for the clone you should be pretty handy whereas with the Briggs, anyone can put it together and you are getting 50% more power while being more reliable. They also have sealed bottom ends. This is supposed to keep costs down but as we have seen with the Rotax, that doesn't really work.
The clones are great entry level motors that perform well and are cheap. They are very popular in the U.S. because almost anyone can afford to run them. Sadly, our club is not budget oriented so the better motor usually prevails.
Stay warm !
If you get the base clone motor for $100, you'll end up spending a total of around $400 ( give or take) and spending a good week of evenings modding the motor and putting it all together. An LO206 will cost $600 to $700 but can be ready to go in an evening or so.
Moreover, for the clone you should be pretty handy whereas with the Briggs, anyone can put it together and you are getting 50% more power while being more reliable. They also have sealed bottom ends. This is supposed to keep costs down but as we have seen with the Rotax, that doesn't really work.
The clones are great entry level motors that perform well and are cheap. They are very popular in the U.S. because almost anyone can afford to run them. Sadly, our club is not budget oriented so the better motor usually prevails.
Stay warm !
Mark Hillier #44 VLR Senior, Shifter
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wilsondolan
Re: 4 stroke questions?
I'd like to add one thing to tha Mark,
The Briggs seal works a little better than the rotax seal at keeping costs down. Unlike the rotax seal, the LO206 seal cannot be replaced once it is broken. This insures that no tampering can be done to the bottom end of the motor. So if something in your bottom end goes wrong you can purchase a new sealed bottom end for under $300.
Cheers,
The Briggs seal works a little better than the rotax seal at keeping costs down. Unlike the rotax seal, the LO206 seal cannot be replaced once it is broken. This insures that no tampering can be done to the bottom end of the motor. So if something in your bottom end goes wrong you can purchase a new sealed bottom end for under $300.
Cheers,
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John Kwong
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Re: 4 stroke questions?
Here is a pic of the sealed short block assembly.
Not that you would need one anytime soon.
Not that you would need one anytime soon.
- LO206 short block.jpg (12.6 KiB) Viewed 13115 times
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david_351
Re: 4 stroke questions?
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I will just aim to go for the LO206, as I want to be able to compete in a large group. I would have liked the chance to modify and work on the engine, but I would rather race in a larger group. I have been in contact with Joey at Overdrive karts, and am pricing out chassis and engines. What is the approximate price range on kart chassis? Whats the range from cheapest to most expensive? What is a common chassis that is used in 4 stroke? I thank you again for the info.
Regards,
David McGrath
Regards,
David McGrath
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Mark
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Re: 4 stroke questions?
Wilson,wilsondolan wrote:I'd like to add one thing to tha Mark,
The Briggs seal works a little better than the rotax seal at keeping costs down. Unlike the rotax seal, the LO206 seal cannot be replaced once it is broken. This insures that no tampering can be done to the bottom end of the motor. So if something in your bottom end goes wrong you can purchase a new sealed bottom end for under $300.
Cheers,
Good point ! That makes a difference since no one can swap parts around to blueprint it (which is the problem with Rotax). It'll be interesting to see if the LO206 engines are closer to one another out of the box than the Rotax. You can only get so close when you have all those parts but if the engines are all pretty similar, you can get good racing.
Mark Hillier #44 VLR Senior, Shifter
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wilsondolan
Re: 4 stroke questions?
David,
There is actually quite a mixed bag of chassis on the 4-stroke grid these days. Most of us racers are using old two-stroke chassis that we had laying around, that we have slightly modified to accept a 4-stroke. It is rare to see more than two of that same chassis' on the same grid in our class here in Calgary.
Pricing varies based on the brand you buy, but for a new chassis your probably going to be looking at $3000-$3500. It's likely though that most chassis' you see will be closer to the $3500 price range.
For used it really varies based on who's selling the chassis, it's age, condition and so on. It's hard to put an exact number on used chassis, but for a complete used rolling chassis your probably going to spend $1000-$1500 for something that's in good shape, and still straight.
Regards,
There is actually quite a mixed bag of chassis on the 4-stroke grid these days. Most of us racers are using old two-stroke chassis that we had laying around, that we have slightly modified to accept a 4-stroke. It is rare to see more than two of that same chassis' on the same grid in our class here in Calgary.
Pricing varies based on the brand you buy, but for a new chassis your probably going to be looking at $3000-$3500. It's likely though that most chassis' you see will be closer to the $3500 price range.
For used it really varies based on who's selling the chassis, it's age, condition and so on. It's hard to put an exact number on used chassis, but for a complete used rolling chassis your probably going to spend $1000-$1500 for something that's in good shape, and still straight.
Regards,