Fuel supplier

[elmt1]

I don't know a lot about fuel and I know next to nothing about Canadian fuel, but given the downside, I would prefer to be safe. I have put about 4-5 hours on my ROK VLR motor using 93 octane non-ethanol pump gas and the piston looks fine. The manual says it should use at minimum 95 octane, but it could be that they are using a European scale and didn't translate that when they wrote the US version of their manual. The lack of problems could also just be that most of those hours I put on it were at high RPM without a lot of load and it was only run on fuel from the fuel dock for the ~25 hours it was used before I bought it.

[newson48]

Hi David !
I sure hope you get to run your VLR with our club next year! This Covid thing has affected your racing season a lot more than ours!

I don't want this thread to turn into a VLR fuel requirement thread, but this is what I understand. The USA manual does in fact show that 95 octane is the minumum for the VLR. I think this is true, as it is an air-cooled motor. (the Rotax motors run much cooler because of water cooling) Having said that, the need for octane diminishes as you run your engine at altitude. (approximately 1 unit per thousand feet +/-) which would mean at our track which is 3035 feet, your VLR would require approximately 92 octane as the minumum. (again +/-) Maybe on a really hot day you would need a bit more octane. I have never run a VLR, so I am by no means an authority. Joey and the VLR guys can tell you from real world experience what works. (maybe in the VLR section of the forums)

Cheers
Blake

[Fred]

The reason the ESSO was not initially considered was the difficulty in getting a truck and trailer in and out let alone the bigger rigs.

I have suggested many times that we use COOP and set up a membership for the club that members punch in to gain points for the club that can be used year end to divide up for the volunteers gift cards.. With the new one right down the road and the ability to easily get in and out (Oh and Tims) it would be more logical to use this as our preferred gas station.

[Jen and Don]

Gets my vote for sure. Shell supplies their fuel. Everything you need in that corner too, food and beer! Don

[John Kwong]

Co-op sounds good to me too.

John K

[Tjfast]

I will throw my vote at CO-OP.

[RoyW]

If it is the Members wish to change official race fuel suppler; I would suggest a vote at the AGM on it... The club Treasurer would then need to establish an official club membership with Coop and share the stickers of the account number with members to stick to their facility access card to punch in when they purchase the fuel... Then whatever the patronage benefit is it would be up to the Executive to decide how to distribute it on behalf of the club as they currently decide how volunteer awards are handled.

[JasonL]

Hi all,

My first post on the forum aside from the Classifieds when I was looking for equipment for Carson and my first season. Wanted to say we both had a blast, and couldn't believe how kind and helpful the members were (and patient as we figured things out). We can't wait for next season, and will also have my daughter with us for 2021.

To the matter at hand in this thread... I've worked for one of the major integrated O&G companies for over 20 years. Most of that time has been in & around the fuels & lubricants business, so I have a fair bit of (semi-technical) knowledge in this area. For the record, nothing I say here is on behalf of the company I work for.

A few points:

- I'd love to change the club's preferred fuel supplier, or even move away from specifying a brand, and perhaps, just stick with an octane level, if needed. The fuel I bought for Carson's first race last weekend was torturous. I hate to have to buy a competitor's product.

-If open suppliers isn't desirable, I can reach out to some contacts to see if a sponsorship of some sort can be arranged. Is there a minimum value of support that the club would insist upon for this?

-Right now, with perhaps some rare exceptions, you won't find ethanol in 87 or 91 octane fuels in the Calgary area. That's because there may be some equipment changes needed at the service station when they first convert to ethanol gasoline, and there can be product quality concerns if a station goes back and forth between ethanol and non-ethanol gasolines. Also, distribution terminals are sometimes shared, so what typically happens is that a specific region will move to ethanol at a similar time - across brands.

-Right now, Calgary is not an ethanol market. Edmonton is. Also, in ethanol markets, it is generally not present in 91 octane fuel, just 87 octane. Octane levels above 91 will likely contain ethanol. The presence of 'may contain ethanol' signs may not be a good indicator of which stations do and don't supply it. It's much easier to put the sign on your pumps in case you ever have/need to dispense ethanol gasoline.

-Unless your gasoline is being stored for a long time, there is nothing to fear from an ethanol-blended gasoline. With just a 10% blend, total power is off only about 2% vs. pure gasoline.

-The issue with ethanol is that it is attracted to water - which is likely why Blake's simple test is effective. Water can cause separation of the ethanol from the base fuel. Quality control measures and quick turnover of storage prevent this from being a problem at service stations. If the gasoline sits for a while, condensation can cause trouble, which is why you often hear people say that ethanol gasolines shouldn't be used in seasonal equipment or near water.

-Anyone with strong feelings against the use of ethanol-blended gasoline is going to have to suck it up eventually. Regulations are forcing the industry to place ethanol into more markets. Calgary won't remain free much longer.

Jason

[Mark]

We have a specific supplier (even a specific pump at stations where there is more than 1 tank supplying premium) so that there is consistency for testing purposes. We use a device that measures cyclohexane. If we were to open the fuel suppliers, we would have no means to test fuel.

As to co-op becoming our supplier, I see no reason why we couldn't make the switch based on proximity convenience alone. If there is a way we can collect a dividend in the process, then bonus (it's worth noting that Strathmore is not part of the Calgary co-operative so your Calgary co-op card does nothing for you in Strathmore anyway)

[newson48]

Just a quick couple of notes.
Jason, thanks for your knowledge!
I did test the (91) at Co-op in Strathmore last weekend and it did not contain Ethanol.
Mark, at one time I thought that the Strathmore Co-op was different from the Calgary system, but it seems to be integrated now.
If you go to the Calgary Co-op website, they list the Strathmore locations as part of their Co-op.

Cheers
Blake