Fuel supplier

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Jen and Don
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Fuel supplier

Post by Jen and Don »

I'm sorry if I am beating a dead horse here but I want to re-visit the topic of changing our fuel supplier. Please do some background research if you want to know why this is a thorn in my side. There are tons of utube video's out there that explain why ethanol is bad for small engines. I don't think I need to bother posting the links to these but I certainly can if asked too.
I recently filled up two separate containers of premium fuel and had our tech supervisor check each one on the past Friday. I asked him to please check the octane levels of each as I remember him saying a few races prior, that the Petro Canada came out to about 89 octane at a tech after Carter's JR2 race.( They are selling it branded as 91!) He didn't give me the exact numbers after this recent octane comparison, but he did say that the Petro Canada fuel came in significantly lower than the Shell. There would be a enough of a difference that if all other karts were to use the Petro Canada, and Carter was to use the Shell, that he would be DQ'd due the obvious difference in the test results. It has been stated that some fuel suppliers are adding ethanol to their fuel to boost their octane levels. Petro Canada says it right on their pumps Well, I guess we are now getting a far weaker blend of fuel to try to bring it up to the advertised 91 octane and is still proven to be less than that.

There is no way of us knowing if they are adding ethanol, they just say that it could contain it. Why are we taking the chance? It has no shelf life if it does! They say you should drain you tank after every race if you are using this type of fuel. Briggs and Statton have stated this too.

I just can't see any reasonable argument to why we aren't switching to Shell fuel and I have heard from many others that they are questioning it too.

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John Kwong
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by John Kwong »

When we raced at Varsity, we used the Flying J as the spec gas station which was supplied by Shell. Back then the Briggs classes ran on Regular grade fuel. While we were still at Varsity, ASN Canada switched all classes to Premium gas to simplify post race tech with only one type of fuel to deal with. After the switch it was felt that the Briggs motors unfortunately made better power on the regular gas.

The club recommends buying fuel for any race event the day of, to prevent any fluctuations between the tech sample and the racers sample. Spec fuel is the same for everyone when this is done.

As far as the Strathmore PetroCanada is concerned, it was chosen for two reasons. They did give us some fuel discount cards when we first built the track for members to use and it was conveniently located on the way into town. Other than that we have no reason to stay with PetroCanada. Certainly, if someone wanted to pursue a sponsorship deal of some sort with another supplier, the executive would probably be interested in changing.

Any fuel used for racing purposes does not have great shelf life anyway and especially when left in a vented container such as a kart gas tank.
Other than this past year, I have run the Briggs LO206 classes since CKRC started running them and have never drained the float bowls of fuel except when storing the motors for winter. I never had any issues with corrosion inside the float bowls from ethanol.

I am not sure what the ethanol content is in the U.S. but very few karters in the states use pump gas as it is notoriously inconsistent and typically use the much higher priced VP race fuel.

John K
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newson48
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by newson48 »

Hi Don

I became quite interested in Ethanol and fuels in general when I bought my Ecoboost several years ago.
Through some internet digging I found a simple and reliable test for Ethanol in fuel.
Really all it takes is a test-tube and a few drops of water. I can do a quick test on the Peto Canada in Strathmore when I fill up on Sunday.
( I did test is a couple of years ago and found no Ethanol. Also, most stations near my house had no ethanol, the exceptions being Husky and I think a Domo ) (Esso, Co-op, Safeway, Shell were all Ethanol free at the time)

I have no means to test for Octane, but at 3000 feet of elevation, the engines do not require as much octane as they would at sea-level.

The Esso ( on the south side of the highway in Strathmore ) would be a logical choice, given that people pass it on the way to the track. I approached them years ago to see if they were interested in becoming our spec gas station and they would not return my calls.

Blake
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Jen and Don
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by Jen and Don »

Love the fact we are getting such intelligent feedback. I would have no issues with using Esso and like you say, Blake, it is right off the highway as we all head east. My concern John, is that it is only recently that Petro Canada announced it's premium fuel may contain 10% ethanol. I would look forward to Blake doing an ethanol test if he would be willing. I am not as concerned about the octane ratings, as all of us are using the same supplier and therefore no advantage or disadvantage to anyone.
Reading what ethanol can do to some of the small engine parts is a concern though.
I am not sure what you mean Blake, when stating that our fuel supplier needs to have them acknowledge that they are our spec supplier ? Is it not simply announcing on our website that a certain station will be our fuel supplier? Or is our club getting some sort of financial support from Petro Canada?

Sorry for my ignorance in asking these questions. I am trying to learn the ins and outs of some of our policies as well as making sure we are getting the best for our little race machine's. I don't know if the shifter open class have to run our spec fuel but would like to know what some of them are running if they aren't required to use the Petro Canada.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Don

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Jackmazury
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by Jackmazury »

I seem to recall that every “premium” fuel aside from shell, and chevron with their 94 grade contain or can contain ethanol now. As far as the lo206 is concerned I’ve personally never seen a failure related to fuel in any way, the bottom end seems to expire long before that. Shifter you can use whatever fuel you please, currently there is a variety where some use the spec pertro Canada fuel as a base, and some do not. The only reason not to switch to shell in my opinion is that it is not easily accessed travelling east bound on highway.
Shifter #30

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newson48
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by newson48 »

Don

I tried to dangle a carrot with Esso to see if the club could get some discount etc. If 100 racers all show up on a raceday and purchase premium fuel and maybe something from the store, then I thought they might be interested.

Anyone who wants to bring a sample of gas from their favorite fuel station for Ethanol testing on Sunday, I can do a test for you if you are interested. I only need 10ml of gas. ( a couple of tablespoons or so )

Blake
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newson48
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by newson48 »

Just as a quick follow-up to conclude at least one part of the discussion, the 91 octane from our spec Petro-Can station was tested today and it did not contain any ethanol.

Blake
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rob_slv
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by rob_slv »

Just a last minute thought. Since the CKRC is a Calgary based/Western Canada association why not approach a local fuel supplier like Co-Op and support a Calgary based organization rather than supporting a national or international company. The new store is on the way out Strathmore and has a Tim Hortons across the street.

Rob

Shayne & Griffin
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by Shayne & Griffin »


newson48
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Re: Fuel supplier

Post by newson48 »

The list from that website needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I see a contribution that I made there 5 years ago. A lot can change in 5 years as to what they supply at any given station. The list is obviously not complete either. It doesn't show our Strathmore Petro-Can 91 !

Cheers
Blake
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