1. How would you like to start the year Clockwise or Counter clockwise ?
2. Would you like Tic Tac Toe inserting into one or two of the races in each direction ?
3. With 11 races more CCW or more CW races ?
Discuss !
2022 race directions
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The forums are a place for open discussion of karting topics. Please respect the opinions of others. No name calling, abuse, bashing etc. of any sort will be tolerated and offending posts will be removed and offenders sanctioned at the discretion of the webmaster or the executive. All posted materials, text, etc. become the property of the CKRC and may be displayed or removed at the discretion of the CKRC.
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Jackmazury
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:00 pm
- First Name: Jack
- Last Name: Mazury
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Here are my initial thoughts,
The CCW direction is easier for rookies and has less potential for a large racing incident if you put a nose where it shouldn’t be. The incidents in the CW direction are seemingly more serious than their CCW counterparts. Inexperience only adds to this effect, and although having done 2-3 races isn’t enough to fully have a feel for where and how to pass, it is better than 0. For this reason alone I’d say start CCW, as has been the format since I began.
Regarding the tic tac toe I think we should never use the old layout of that section again. The curbs cause extensive damage to chassis when compared to the new layout, this is especially true in the CW direction where the fast line is 1/2 the kart in the grass over the largest left curb. This issue compounds when we factor in injuries from bouncing the curbs either direction. The new layout flows much better, is smoother, and has more racing room. Nobody I’ve spoken with about it has ever made mention of how they miss the old layout, and I think we’ve made a major step forward with the new one and should continue to use only it.
Lastly, I’m always a proponent of more CW races. The shifter tire we run now does two days at most in either direction so this isn’t a factor for me personally, but could be for other classes as is often noted when this discussion comes up annually. The CW direction is harder on tires with the loading that takes place in turn 1, 5, and 9(?).
The CCW direction is easier for rookies and has less potential for a large racing incident if you put a nose where it shouldn’t be. The incidents in the CW direction are seemingly more serious than their CCW counterparts. Inexperience only adds to this effect, and although having done 2-3 races isn’t enough to fully have a feel for where and how to pass, it is better than 0. For this reason alone I’d say start CCW, as has been the format since I began.
Regarding the tic tac toe I think we should never use the old layout of that section again. The curbs cause extensive damage to chassis when compared to the new layout, this is especially true in the CW direction where the fast line is 1/2 the kart in the grass over the largest left curb. This issue compounds when we factor in injuries from bouncing the curbs either direction. The new layout flows much better, is smoother, and has more racing room. Nobody I’ve spoken with about it has ever made mention of how they miss the old layout, and I think we’ve made a major step forward with the new one and should continue to use only it.
Lastly, I’m always a proponent of more CW races. The shifter tire we run now does two days at most in either direction so this isn’t a factor for me personally, but could be for other classes as is often noted when this discussion comes up annually. The CW direction is harder on tires with the loading that takes place in turn 1, 5, and 9(?).
Shifter #30
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vquiring
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:58 pm
- First Name: Verne
- Last Name: Quiring
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Happy New Year everyone!
For those of us who started in 2020 or later can you please clarify “Tic Tac Toe”?
Regards,
Verne
For those of us who started in 2020 or later can you please clarify “Tic Tac Toe”?
Regards,
Verne
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Jackmazury
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:00 pm
- First Name: Jack
- Last Name: Mazury
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Tic Tac Toe is the old layout of the infield hairpin. Should be turn 10 or 11 on a track map I believe. Where the new pavement is a gradual curve following the hairpin after the straight which runs parallel to the main straight in the CCW direction, the old layout was a sharper hairpin, with an immediate left turn then a right, and then it rejoins with the current layout. The asphalt is visible on any newer track map
Shifter #30
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Class Representative
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vquiring
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:58 pm
- First Name: Verne
- Last Name: Quiring
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Thanks!
V
V
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Mariogim
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 12:14 pm
- First Name: Mario
- Last Name: Gimenez
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Happy New Year to all.
Race direction is a very personal choice for most members as there is pros and cons to both. Having said that, I would prefer starting the season in the CCW direction. The track flows more nicely when racing CCW and the fact that the bumps are less severe in this direction makes it an easy choice for me. I do like to run in the CW direction, but I believe that should happen only after 3 or 4 races in the CCW direction. As Jack mentioned, the accidents seem to be a bit more serious when we are racing in the CW direction so giving racers a chance to toughen their ribs and sharpen their racing skills in the CCW should help mitigate more serious accidents/incidents.
As for the tic tac toe, this could be brought in for one or two races, but I am not a huge fan of them as we need to change gearing, its much tougher on he chassis and it also takes away the flow of the track.
Cheers
Mario Gimenez
Race direction is a very personal choice for most members as there is pros and cons to both. Having said that, I would prefer starting the season in the CCW direction. The track flows more nicely when racing CCW and the fact that the bumps are less severe in this direction makes it an easy choice for me. I do like to run in the CW direction, but I believe that should happen only after 3 or 4 races in the CCW direction. As Jack mentioned, the accidents seem to be a bit more serious when we are racing in the CW direction so giving racers a chance to toughen their ribs and sharpen their racing skills in the CCW should help mitigate more serious accidents/incidents.
As for the tic tac toe, this could be brought in for one or two races, but I am not a huge fan of them as we need to change gearing, its much tougher on he chassis and it also takes away the flow of the track.
Cheers
Mario Gimenez
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JasonL
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:35 pm
- First Name: Jason
- Last Name: Luinenburg
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
Great insights, Jack. Thanks.
This is the first I’ve heard the tic tac toe nomenclature. I’ve always heard it referred to as “Three Stooges”. My initial thought was that the variety would be nice, but if Jack’s comments are true, the costs may outweigh the benefits. A brief distraction by a driver forgetting which configuration was in play on a specific day could lead to damage or injury.
It would also make it harder to keep track of how competitive people’s times are, given the variations.
This is the first I’ve heard the tic tac toe nomenclature. I’ve always heard it referred to as “Three Stooges”. My initial thought was that the variety would be nice, but if Jack’s comments are true, the costs may outweigh the benefits. A brief distraction by a driver forgetting which configuration was in play on a specific day could lead to damage or injury.
It would also make it harder to keep track of how competitive people’s times are, given the variations.
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phil
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:52 pm
- First Name: phil
- Last Name: haggerty
- City/Town: high river
Re: 2022 race directions
1) CCW
2) I will race whatever track layout is in the sup regs. No real preference, but it is much easier without (good or bad?)
3) I personally prefer to drive CW, but the racing is better CCW. CW has too many misleading opportunities, which can lead to big wrecks. I would weight it in favor of CCW, but again, will race whatever is presented.
Phil
2) I will race whatever track layout is in the sup regs. No real preference, but it is much easier without (good or bad?)
3) I personally prefer to drive CW, but the racing is better CCW. CW has too many misleading opportunities, which can lead to big wrecks. I would weight it in favor of CCW, but again, will race whatever is presented.
Phil
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Fred
- Posts: 1212
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- First Name: Fred
- Last Name: Causer
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- Location: Calgary AB
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Re: 2022 race directions
Jason
During initial track build we had made up names for various parts of the track so we could all visualize what part we were talking about .. some we can't repeat but if you look at the aerial picture you might guess some but at that time the combination infield esses were referred to as Tic Tac Toe , later other members referred to it as the 3 stooges .. it took me many years to figure out where this came from being European ! I still refer to them as Tic Tac Toe and the original builders of the track often still use the unmentionable other corners in private discussions. LOL.
During initial track build we had made up names for various parts of the track so we could all visualize what part we were talking about .. some we can't repeat but if you look at the aerial picture you might guess some but at that time the combination infield esses were referred to as Tic Tac Toe , later other members referred to it as the 3 stooges .. it took me many years to figure out where this came from being European ! I still refer to them as Tic Tac Toe and the original builders of the track often still use the unmentionable other corners in private discussions. LOL.
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newson48
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:43 pm
- First Name: Blake and Mark
- Last Name: Newson
- City/Town: Calgary
Re: 2022 race directions
1. CCW. I think running the same format where we run the CCW for the first half of the year, and CW for the second half of the year is likely best. Having the end of the front straight at a lower speed and uphill (CCW) is more forgiving for rookies, along with a couple of other spots on the track. Overall I don't think there's a massive difference between directions so it could go either way, but I would say keeping it as is works best.
2. I don't think we should reintroduce tic tac toe. I remember it was basically a game of who could launch over the curbs most efficiently. The cons outweigh the pros in this case.
The pros:
-Mixing things up a bit, and/or trying something new for those who were not around pre-2020
-Making the section more technical
The cons:
-Much more wear on chassis from hitting curbs every lap
-Harder on ribs due to hitting curbs every lap
-Much tighter, less racing room which led to more tangles/wrecks in that section in the past
-Necessary to hit curbs hard to be competitive, something that some drivers don't like to do
-Would have to add more teeth back onto the sprocket, leading to lower speeds and more wear on motors (higher revs)
-Track does not flow as well according to most drivers
I think if there was a desire from the vast majority of the members to do it for a few races, it wouldn't be catastrophic as we did run like that for 5 years, but as highlighted above I don't see it being worthwhile.
3. Around a 50/50 split CCW and CW as we've been running in recent years is best in my opinion. My favourite direction is CW personally, but both have their pros and cons and I think they should be run about evenly. Both have a few passing zones and are enjoyable in their own right.
Mark
2. I don't think we should reintroduce tic tac toe. I remember it was basically a game of who could launch over the curbs most efficiently. The cons outweigh the pros in this case.
The pros:
-Mixing things up a bit, and/or trying something new for those who were not around pre-2020
-Making the section more technical
The cons:
-Much more wear on chassis from hitting curbs every lap
-Harder on ribs due to hitting curbs every lap
-Much tighter, less racing room which led to more tangles/wrecks in that section in the past
-Necessary to hit curbs hard to be competitive, something that some drivers don't like to do
-Would have to add more teeth back onto the sprocket, leading to lower speeds and more wear on motors (higher revs)
-Track does not flow as well according to most drivers
I think if there was a desire from the vast majority of the members to do it for a few races, it wouldn't be catastrophic as we did run like that for 5 years, but as highlighted above I don't see it being worthwhile.
3. Around a 50/50 split CCW and CW as we've been running in recent years is best in my opinion. My favourite direction is CW personally, but both have their pros and cons and I think they should be run about evenly. Both have a few passing zones and are enjoyable in their own right.
Mark
Senior Rotax #48