All VLR drivers,
A few of us were stuck in Technical inspection post North of 49 due to some irregularities of the new fuel testing gauge. There was a long discussion as to why we had tested differently than other and it was concluded that the premix oil that we use versus other affected the results.
2022 regulations state that the premix oil is open and proves that there is no performance gains with the oil (BRP - XPS 2 stroke premix oil). Most drivers tend to use the Motul or BRP Rotax premix oil but I have made a switch to the XPS for pure economics as this class supports economy versus other 2 stroke options.
The question - do we have a specified oil brand or continue to have an open premix oil regulation.
Please comment and we can have a general discussion on the forums - good or bad.
Cheers,
Rob
VLR premix oil
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The forums are a place for open discussion of karting topics. Please respect the opinions of others. No name calling, abuse, bashing etc. of any sort will be tolerated and offending posts will be removed and offenders sanctioned at the discretion of the webmaster or the executive. All posted materials, text, etc. become the property of the CKRC and may be displayed or removed at the discretion of the CKRC.
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phil
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Re: VLR premix oil
If it is open (which I'm sure it is), they should be able to verify by mixing a sample with their test fuel, and your oil. There's also people using castor oil, which is not allowed in the Rok USA rules, but I believe is allowed here. It would probably be good to at least narrow it down to a couple "approved" oils, so tech doesn't have to do too many comparison samples.
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rob_slv
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Re: VLR premix oil
I agree with you Phil.
The octane levels were all the same (91) but it’s the additives caused the same to be skewed. I guess what I’m really asking if we poll the entire class to see what oil is being used we can get a representative sample of all mixed fuel, is this acceptable to the class drivers?
Rob
The octane levels were all the same (91) but it’s the additives caused the same to be skewed. I guess what I’m really asking if we poll the entire class to see what oil is being used we can get a representative sample of all mixed fuel, is this acceptable to the class drivers?
Rob
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Mark
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Re: VLR premix oil
Since oil is open for this class, all brands of oil are legal. However, as we discovered last week, there are some (one?) oils that alter the conductivity of the sample and sets the meter off.
This presents a problem for the Tech process. The job of the folks at Tech is to ensure that no one is "doctoring" their fuel and endangering the health of others and/or gaining a competitive advantage. As you know, we aren't the only class coming through tech and the process needs to be as efficient as possible.
As a class, we need to discuss various possibilities:
1. Continue to allow any oil to be used. This would requite Tech to mix a test sample of the XPS oil some of us are using ($20/L) to have a baseline to measure against to ensure anyone using this particular oil isn't doctoring their fuel in some other way)
2. Ban the problem oil. This would effectively force us to spec a specific oil for the class.
3. Spec an oil.
The XPS oil that is causing an issue is a Marine Rotax oil. It contains an additive(s) (we suspect a corrosion inhibitor) that causes issues with the meter. The upside is that it's only $20/L. The Rotax and Motul products do not contain this additive and pass Tech without issue but cost $25 - $33/L. It's curious that a mass-market (consumer watercraft) version of A Rotax oil is 30% less than the racing version of the same thing !
This presents a problem for the Tech process. The job of the folks at Tech is to ensure that no one is "doctoring" their fuel and endangering the health of others and/or gaining a competitive advantage. As you know, we aren't the only class coming through tech and the process needs to be as efficient as possible.
As a class, we need to discuss various possibilities:
1. Continue to allow any oil to be used. This would requite Tech to mix a test sample of the XPS oil some of us are using ($20/L) to have a baseline to measure against to ensure anyone using this particular oil isn't doctoring their fuel in some other way)
2. Ban the problem oil. This would effectively force us to spec a specific oil for the class.
3. Spec an oil.
The XPS oil that is causing an issue is a Marine Rotax oil. It contains an additive(s) (we suspect a corrosion inhibitor) that causes issues with the meter. The upside is that it's only $20/L. The Rotax and Motul products do not contain this additive and pass Tech without issue but cost $25 - $33/L. It's curious that a mass-market (consumer watercraft) version of A Rotax oil is 30% less than the racing version of the same thing !
Mark Hillier #44 VLR Senior, Shifter
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Fred
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Re: VLR premix oil
You just stated why its more expensive "Racing"
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[email protected]
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- First Name: Glenn
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Re: VLR premix oil
Hello All,
I use Motul 800, available from everywhere and about $100 for 4 liters. My biggest concern is that I/we use an oil that will hold up to the
heat and high rpm that we run... I vote this as a spec oil.
Glenn
I use Motul 800, available from everywhere and about $100 for 4 liters. My biggest concern is that I/we use an oil that will hold up to the
heat and high rpm that we run... I vote this as a spec oil.
Glenn
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M1llwright
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Re: VLR premix oil
I think what's most concerning to me, all these "false positives" have me questioning the instruments and/or methods being used. Will they actually catch someone cheating?
I believe as an experiment some race gas was tested earlier this year and would have been ok according to tech at that time. I was also flagged once for having old gas which is clearly not going to give me an advantage.
Do we know what instruments or methods other clubs use?
I believe as an experiment some race gas was tested earlier this year and would have been ok according to tech at that time. I was also flagged once for having old gas which is clearly not going to give me an advantage.
Do we know what instruments or methods other clubs use?
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Jackmazury
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Re: VLR premix oil
It is all very similar from what I have seen. This is why at any national or even regional race the race organizer supplies the fuel typically, whether that be a bulk buy of pump gas typically for Rotax, or C12/MS109/MS98 for any other two stroke package. They also determine which oil you are allowed to use. I cannot recall the Rok specific brand, but Motul is industry standard and accessible. Before you can go so far as to weed out any potential cheating you would all need to be on the same oil and fuel for testing purposes and then variance could be identified.
I don't race VLR, but that is what i've seen. Just a .02
I don't race VLR, but that is what i've seen. Just a .02
Shifter #30
Class Representative
Class Representative
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Jen and Don
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Re: VLR premix oil
Hello there.
This would be my thoughts on this issue even though I am running Briggs and Carter is running shifter. I am a carpenter, and when I am building a house for someone, or extensive renovation, I always tell them that there are area's in the build that you can skimp on and there are area's where you don't want to!
In karting, your oil is one area you DON'T want to skimp out on. And for what amount of savings? Like Glenn stated, Motul, $100/4 litre. In shifter we mix 25:1. So on a full race day we go through 6 litres of fuel, ( 3 litres C12 and 3 litres pump 91) . At 241 ml of oil to this race day , you will get 16 race days from a 4 litre jug. ($ 6.25/ day) . I would imagine you guys are running 50:1 ? So only $3/day for oil and 32 racedays per jug. (based on burning 6 litres of fuel / raceday.)
If this is one of the best oils to be spec'd, it is a small price to pay in the best protection for your engine. I still say that oil and fuel is the cheapest part of a raceday. You could walk past the burger stand and put that savings into your kart, but you'd be missing out on an amazing lunch.
Like Jack would say, my .02 worth. Don
This would be my thoughts on this issue even though I am running Briggs and Carter is running shifter. I am a carpenter, and when I am building a house for someone, or extensive renovation, I always tell them that there are area's in the build that you can skimp on and there are area's where you don't want to!
In karting, your oil is one area you DON'T want to skimp out on. And for what amount of savings? Like Glenn stated, Motul, $100/4 litre. In shifter we mix 25:1. So on a full race day we go through 6 litres of fuel, ( 3 litres C12 and 3 litres pump 91) . At 241 ml of oil to this race day , you will get 16 race days from a 4 litre jug. ($ 6.25/ day) . I would imagine you guys are running 50:1 ? So only $3/day for oil and 32 racedays per jug. (based on burning 6 litres of fuel / raceday.)
If this is one of the best oils to be spec'd, it is a small price to pay in the best protection for your engine. I still say that oil and fuel is the cheapest part of a raceday. You could walk past the burger stand and put that savings into your kart, but you'd be missing out on an amazing lunch.
Like Jack would say, my .02 worth. Don