J1 Slides

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Fred
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J1 Slides

Post by Fred »

What's your thoughts as a group to using the Red (ASN) slide going forward (Slower) rather than the Green slide ?

jash
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by jash »

I think it depends on what we’re trying to achieve, are we trying to create more of a lap time difference between classes, improve safety or match the national regulations?

I noticed a good discussion in the junior 2 forum on this with lots of good points from last year. For me, I think it’s most important that we’re consistent with the regional tracks so should we travel to another track we don’t have to re tool and re tune. This prompted me to look at the 2021 Canadian rule set and it seems to say red for cadet but I don’t know what the other tracks are using!

To me, it’s necessary to start the progression at a reasonably high speed (sufficiently high so that good driving is rewarded and mistakes are possible) while safety is dictated by top speed, relative speed, and weight. I'm guessing here but in order to put most of the track in play the kids need to be putting down 1:04 laps or so? Otherwise it won't be necessary for them to use the entire track or really follow the racing line. I actually think the consistency of lap times between briggs classes is a good thing. It's kind of what briggs is all about. Starting at 11 there are higher horsepower classes for anyone that's concerned about that.

However, the horsepower reduction from green to red is pretty marginal (half a horse) but it moves a lot on the rpm curve. I will bet I can re-gear, clutch, and retune my karts for that band and get them pretty close to the same lap time they post now. So we won’t have changed much other than causing everyone to go through that exercise. I’ve seen purple slides put down 1:05 laps (a 2hp reduction) so if the green slide is at 1:02 and the red slide is a 0.5 hp reduction figure we’re looking at about a 1:02:70 lap time on red? Not a significant change in my mind and probably achieving a similar (within 5km/h) top speed.

So, I guess I'm kind of indifferent from a performance perspective but would rather not spend the time tuning or the expense of buying new slides / clutch parts.

rob_slv
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by rob_slv »

Fred and I have discussed this numerous times. I think we should stick to what the tracks regionally utilize. If it's a green slide then let's use it. But if other clubs see that the J1s are getting faster than J2 then we need to seriously think about what we are trying to accomplish. I do have concerns as to why we are looking to change to the ASN spec.
- Are we looking at changing because the J1 karts are too fast?
- Are we looking at changing because of a high rate of incidents?
- Is there no progression once racers more to J2?
- Did we as a club make a mistake by moving towards something because of parental pressure?
- Are we afraid of a serious accident?

My thoughts are if we as a club have done a reasonable job of preparing our J1 racers to handle the speed then we stay the course. We offer driver development, we offer mentorship/coaching, and a progression from introductory lapping using our Kid Kart program. Racing is a risk-related sport and we can not account for everything that COULD happen in a race or free lapping. Does Rocky Mountain Motorcross limit young racer's engines? I'm not aware of it.

Lap times in 2020 were extremely fast but by only 1 racer. The rest of the field was consistently 1.03 and 1.04 or slower. We will not have that issue this year.

Maybe we make Kid Kart mandatory for all J1 racers and they cannot proceed to J1 racing until we as a club are satisfied they can safely race in a group. Certainly, the Executive should be involved in the decision-making.

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Fred
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by Fred »

Some good points ... Just gathering some info for another working group working on New National regulations .. I don't see we have a problem and with the New ASN forming it would be good to put forward our views on it. The explanation of re-gearing to achieve the same times is a good argument. One thing I think you will see is faster average lap times this year purely by the change to a massively higher grip level tire than they previously had.

Good conversation ... more input if anyone has anything.

Rob Kozakowski
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by Rob Kozakowski »

The Briggs Junior rules are all over the map, depending on where you go in Canada. Even "Regionally". For example Chilliwack rules call for the Blue Slide in J1 (the National Junior Lite slide).

I'd be all for slowing down the J1's a bit... especially if there's a National rule that we can follow to justify it, rather than trying to create a solution. As the father of a new 8-year old racer last year (and as a long-time racer myself), the speeds the J1 are running are kind of ridiculously fast... in my opinion.

I think slowing them down a bit really helps the newer kids get up to speed quicker, and allows them to learn race craft at speeds that are safer for when mistakes do happen. If the kids want to go faster, there's always Micro Max, or move up to J2 if they're old enough.

I don't "think" too many EDKRA parents would fight a change.

At the very least, it's not an expensive change to make.

Rob Kozakowski
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by Rob Kozakowski »

Fred, as an FYI, I've raised this discussion on the EDKRA facebook discussion page to see if I get any feedback from our club. From a regional perspective, I'm of the opinion that the only 2 clubs to concern ourselves with in J1 Briggs are the CKRC and EDKRA, as they didn't even offer the class at the "Westerns" last year.

pauldeadman
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by pauldeadman »

We went to nationals 2 years ago in Toronto and ran the red slide in the Briggs cadet class. George had a top speed of 92kph. Granted the engines were tuned but as a previous post said, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that and finding the right gearing etc

I may have an 8 year starting this year and have no issue with him driving a green slide, the kart only goes as fast as he wants it. Consistent driving line and seat time are how they get faster.

Now with that said, if the new ASN set rules in place and J1 is a red slide, then I believe both clubs plus the other western clubs should all run the same.
J2 should have a lite and junior class as per regulations as well. 50/60lbs of lead on a kart is not necessary in my opinion but I understand participation would be affected for championships and local rules could take affect.

Great discussion!

Paul

Joey Guyon
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by Joey Guyon »

Hi Guys,

This is a great talk to begin discussing now towards a 2022 rule set. Please note 2 things:
In the fall the heads of all prairie clubs meet and we discuss changes that affects everybody and to keep us all on the same page for travel. historically the clubs have followed our lead on kart rear width, rim width and tire compound. A very good topic to discuss slowly.

Also there is a new Briggs and stratton rules committe being formed for the entire country. Some of the topics covered will be which rules to add or remove from the USA rule set in order to keep costs down and of course keep tech in line.

Another notable point for this topic: is there a class representative?

Regards,

Joey

Sheriff525
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Re: J1 Slides

Post by Sheriff525 »

We have 4 kids in this class for 2021. 2 are new to the class for 2021 and don't have any experience from kid kart. We do however get to the track alot and hope to repeat what we did last year and get them a ton of seat time in 2021.

I was looking at our data and with the green slide we had kids hitting 89 kph with a motor that was right out of the box. This is faster than masters class where I can hit 84 kph as my max. In our situation we put both our drivers in to Cadet karts in 2020 without any previous experience and they thrived because we got them alot of seat time.

We're they doing it correct tho? We used gopro and mycron data which helped us clearly realize that the karts were capable of going faster than the driver's were capable of driving. They were going fast but didn't know what they were really doing because they lacked consistency in following the racing line. By the end of the season they were doing much better but more often than not struggled to hit their marks and really understand the racing line. I personally see it as a good thing to change to red and slow it down a bit, especially with the increase grip on the tires this year.

It also makes me feel slow knowing my kid is hitting a faster lap time than me in Masters
Lane Trim #93 - Briggs Masters
The Gentlemen Pros Racing Team

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